Quick Question on lead Climbing

if you're interested in trad climbing, learning outside is really the only way to go (as far as I'm concerned). outside is less forgiving for ALL mistakes, not just 'newbie' ones. but then, that's what trad climbing is all about, isn't it? the ability to climb a route, and place gear effectively to protect against a fall. climbing sport is to climb a route and make it from bolt to bolt (albeit with great finesse). I think once you try it, you'll see the immense difference. when leading trad, you better be damn sure of your placements (or climbing ability), and there is no better way to practice than the real thing. placing pro under top rope conditions, or between bolts on a sport route simply is not the same as leading a trad climb - and you will probably learn more lazy or poor placement methods when a fall really doesn't have the same ramifications.

as said before, just my $0.02 (cndn)

A related question: are there even gyms out there where it is possible to learn to place pro? My local gym has one

Can't really add to this reply..that about sums it up. My first experiences leading, looking back, were pretty dangerous. Caught some nasty falls my (also) newbie partner took, and experienced a 20' ground fall on a bomber 5.8 hand crack myself. A bruised rip and cracked elbow, but i quickly got 'back on the horse' and finished the lead before the real pain set in. Ahh..those were the good ole days!

I think what Rob wrote below is one of the best ways to learn your gear (novice or not). However if your new, nothing beats following an experienced leader for awhile.

Sean K

This is NOT a quick question. It's not even a moderately long question.

Go to DejaNews and look up the interminable threads about learning to lead within the last two years. You can search for my name. There's more there than anyone should be willing to re-type.

- Lord Slime

It probably does not matter then. I have never been to a gym that would let you lead if you did not pass the lead test and both lead tests I have taken in gyms (Fort Collins) require that you lead a 5.9 while they watch for back-clipping, letting the rope run between your legs in a way that you would flip over if you fell etc.

I can't remember if I read about it in a mag or on the web but there is a gym (Britian?) that has steel pro placements for nuts and cams, etc.

Many people forget about the part of leading that does not involve placing gear or even using a rope. Extending one's ability to climb unroped on exposed terrain is part of the mix. I don't mean that you need to go out and throw caution to the wind, soloing until you take the ultimate compactor. I mean learning how to judge what is an acceptable risk. Going solo into the mountains or scrambling around crags on days that you can't find a partner (or don't want one) is a worthwhile use of time. Many classic lines have been located by folks wandering around, feeling the pulse of the land. The paybacks are many, such as learning when it's OK to run it out or when you should bail. Or maybe seeing a unique juxtaposition of light and land. It all translates. Use it all.

Just don't try to tell me that a gym is the best place to learn to lead - unless the gym intentionally has some bogus lead and/or anchor bolts.

I have to disagree, John. Here goes.

Adrian, call Rock and River Guide Service in the Adirondacks (www.rockandriver.com). Get their catalog. See when the first lead course (four days) is next spring. Climb in the gym all winter, also trying to get folks to take you out ice climbing. (Also, go to every ice festival and take lots of those minicourses and gear demos. Dacks in January, NH in February, Quebec in March.)

Save up lots of money. Dream all winter about the lead course. Take the lead course. Go to the Mountaineer (local Dacks climbing shop) with your guide and have him help you buy your rack (you get a discount if it's the same weekend as your course. These two enterprises are way too cushy with one another. Think junkie who befriends you and then introduces you to the local pusher.)

You may be tempted to do the course this fall. Don't. You want to be able to climb every 5.7 in your gym even at the end of the night when you're dog tired, before you lead 5.4s in the Dacks, and after the course you'll want to run out and lead a 5.4 in the Dacks. Also, your Canadian season is almost over, and you'll have all winter to forget what you learned, which would be quite a shame.

-steven-

And that's why you think it's _better_ to learn outdoors?

Jay

Before you buy.

In learning any new complex skill, learning is faster when you can learn the skill in stages. Learning to lead indoors first will allow you to get used to being on the sharp end without having to concentrate simultaneously on placing pro. Next, if you lead some outdoor sport climbs, you will learn to be comfortable higher above your pro. Then, with that experience plus some instruction on placing gear, when you start leading trad, you'll be able to concentrate on the gear, without the added anxiety of being on lead for the first time.

Jay

Before you buy.

Mad Dog,

The gym is the best place to learn to lead. It's the best place to learn to top-rope and boulder too. It's the best place to climb period. If you've never climbed outside of the gym DO NOT BOTHER. It is not worth the effort considering the approach hikes, the lack of heat/air conditioning, the expensive gear you'll need, the bugs, the risk, the loose rock, the prices (how much is a Golden Eagle now?), the crowds, the gumbies with big packs and no talent, fast rude people who pass, slow rude people who won't let you pass and so on and so on. All in all, the gym rules!