Ice Climbing boots

Now before anyone goes yelling at me, I did search deja, and have come up with little, and yeah I recall vaguely the article in one of the climbing mags withing the past year or so. With that said:

I want to get into ice climbing. I've only gone once. Now I need gear. Probably the best way to go about this is to do it more and maybe rent stuff or something, but I guess that's just not the way I operate. I don't foresee myself ever doing any sort of real mountaineering or anything; I imagine the use of these boots to be strictly limited to steep ice, and the approach thereof, and probably not outside of New England (what do I know, maybe temperatures are really different in other places and that would influence my decision) I am not particularly prone to cold feet.

So apparently the choices are leather and plastic, and I've read and heard opinions on both, and I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is this: How on earth can I tell what kind of ice a boot is really going to be good for? For example (and purely example, because I haven't a clue as to the answer, really) how would I know if the Scarpa Freney would be a good choice, or if it might not be stiff enough, or whatever enough? If someone can pretty please point me in the right direction, I'd be ever so grateful...

thanks!!

Most boots are designed by the manufacturer for steep ice, glacier trudging or somewhere in between. You just gotta check their literature or websites. And the mags do plenty of reviews, I'm sure you can go to climbing or rocknice.com and pull something up.

You didn't say whether money was a factor, but if you are thinking about boots, crampons, tools, and maybe gloves, screws, or clothing, it will be unless you're rich. What I did in your position was to figure out what I could afford to spend on the whole package and contact the various gear mail order places. Tell them you are ready to drop a chunk of change but want deals, discounts and advice. You'll definitely get the advice, and many of the guys that work the phones use the gear and seemed really interested in helping me make the right choice. I ended up very happy with an assortment of last years' models and overstocks, plus another 10% off the top.

I did the same thing recently on a few hundred dollars worth of wall gear and got some excellent discounts, and again, ended up buying from a store that really tried to make sure I got what I needed.

Even if you don't get the absolute ferrari of boots or tools, you'll feel warm and fuzzy with solid chevys if you saved that money and have some left for the next gear you 'desperately need'. I'd start with IME; they are the pros on NE ice and helped me alot.

Good luck Stu Hammett

That's generally good advice, but take note: Boots that don't fit well are no bargain. Unless you somehow know which boots fit you best, I'd go to a shop with a good selection and try them all.

(other good advice snipped)

Aya,

It's probably worth the trip for you to check out IME's basement. There's a ton of stuff there on consignment or final-markdown-sale, including boots (actually, last time I was in there, they had a boatload of Makalus, which I think should be fine for vertical ice, in smaller sizes on clearance. Go soon!). Not to mention that IME is conveniently located at about the epicenter of NE ice, making the trip that much more worthwhile.

One word - FIT, first and foremost, obviously other factors need to be considered, warmth especially for NE climate but sock combinations can help along with the proper gaiters. My first pair of boots were Koflachs purchased on sale, main motivating force at the time, and I needed to finagle with them a bit before I got them to fit properly most likely due to my foot shape. Heal lift especially while on vertical ice was kinda-of troublesome but with inserts from a local ski shop the problem disappeared. Of late, I've been climbing in a pair of Scarpa Eigers (leather) although no longer a current model, I'm very happy with them and their fit is more ideal to my foot shape.

My partners climb in a variety of makes and styles although, I must note that the Makalus (leather) seem to be very popular along with the Scarpa Invernos (plastic). The Makalus seem to be priced at the lower end of the leather spectrum. Check out Mountainfest this weekend in the Daks, (www.rockandriver.com) there will most likely be numerous manufactures on site demo-ing all types of ice gear which you can try out on a manufactured wall.

I totally agree with the previous posters comments about checking out IME great people with good solid advice has always been my experience. YMMV.

Cheers,

If I was going to own only one pair of boots for ice climbing, I would get either a plastic boot or an insulated leather boot. An uninsulated single leather boot probably won't keep your feet adequately warm in all of the conditions you are likely to encounter winter climbing in the North East. My experiences in New Hampshire and the Adirondacks have included a number of really really cold days where even a supergaiter would not have made an uninsulated leather boot warm enough.

Plastic boots to look at:

The new plastic boot by Scarpa called the ' Alpha ' looks intriguing. It is distributed in the States by Black Diamond. I haven't actually seen a pair of these boots, but they look interesting in their catalog and Web page. They might be the solution to the leather/plastic question. http://www.bdel.com/alpinism/boots_alpha.html

The Asolo line are good boots. I have and love the old AFS Expedition. The current model of the Expedition is the AFS 8000. These are relatively light,, with reasonably flexible ankles and (my favorite) a dual lacing system that allows you to snug down the heel and instep, but leave the ankle loose for mobility.
http://www.mgear.com/mgear/itempg_3.icl?dirpage=dir_3& ITMID=11305&SEC...

A number of my friends use and swear by the Lowa plastic boots. They have a reputation for being sensitive and agile. The Civetta Extreme is their current flagship model. http://www.mtntools.com/

Leather Boots to look at:

You mentioned the Freney. I have the Freneys, and really like them. I don't think I would choose them as my only pair of ice climbing boots, however. They have a very flexible upper, which is both great and not so great. The good news is that they are very very agile and sensitive and you can really maneuver on funky ice. They work great for French (flatfoot) technique. The bad news is that the soft uppers mean that your calf muscles get tired more quickly than they do with a stiffer, more supportive boot.

With leather boots, fit is even more important than with plastic. Try on boots from several different manufacturers and find one that really fits your foot.

Check out the Scarpa Matterhorn Thermo; The Sportiva Nepal Top Extreme; the Boreal Super Latok; and the Salomon SM9 Guide Thermic (heavily insulated) and Super Mountain 9 Snow and Ice (lightly insulated).
http://www.mgear.com/mgear/itempg_3.icl?dirpage=dir_3& ITMID=22035&SEC...

(good deal on Salomon SM9) http://www.sportiva.com/ (Sportiva page) http://www.scarpa.co.uk/mountaineering/index.html (Scarpa UK page) http://146.101.66.13/outdoor/us/ (Salomon page) http://www.boreal-club.com/ (Boreal page)

Hope this helps.

Kai

I had good service with them too. I used some Climb High VBL socks for a night on Willard and they fell apart. Immediately the guy took them back without question. I also tried on packs for an hour unlike most outdoor stores none of the staff were hanging on my neck. When I asked a question they had the correct answer. Not much more to add to the other's.

I had also good service with Ragged Mountain. Anyone have an opinion about them?

Just to throw more confusion into the debate (and I'll assume you know about ankle support, shank length, stiffness, which are properties all alpine boots have to one extent or another and don't forget the type of climes your headed to, approach, cost etc.)

Plastic boots Pros- virtually idiot proof, don't have to worry about getting wet feet and just have to dry out the booties, usually can do terrific edging Cons- kind of clunky, heavy and ungainly, which MIGHT be solved by using the next smallest size

Leather Pros- lighter and more maneuverable (depending on model), might even find a double leather combo, because they are lighter and less stiff plus shanks are usually on the light side, all that will vary edging performance Cons- they get wet, your feet will go through hell. Usually they are cut lower around the ankle.

You also might want to wait a bit and see what the market has for next season. Non-leather and non-plastic -type boots are showing up more and more for alpine wear.

Common lament and no good answer. may be 'rent, rent, rent' is a good answer for you? In other words, 'Do I want my boots to fit my climbing style or do I want my climbing style to fit my boots.'

Wow, thanks Kai, and everyone else!! you all kick butt

Aya

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I used Makalus on vertical ice for two seasons, and would not recommend them to someone looking for ice climbing boots. Someone who already owns the boots might well choose to use them. They are not bad, per se, but require a lot of attention tying the laces to get the right fit for technical climbing, and are still likely to put pressure on the heels when standing on front points. That's just the nature of a softer boot.

While we're recommending stores near North Conway (Intervale, actually), I'll put in a plug for Ragged Mountain Equipment. It may be just my personal experience, but last millenium when I shopped there, they seemed mighty friendly and they had the out of production pick I needed. I recall a huge selection of gear and easy going atitudes.

You probably know this, but I thought I'd point out that going to the next smallest size would probably make for COLD feet.

I've had and heard varying experiences with Ragged - hot, then cold. They do also have a consignment basement. They also make their own lines of fleece and other stuff - my current leashes are Ragged's copy of the BD lockdown leashes. Definitely worth a look if you're shopping around!

Thing is, IME is nearest to a great little coffee shop, whereas Ragged's right next to some altogether-too-good, cheap greasy bar food. Coffee wins, every time.