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picton
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Posted 5 Months, 1 Week ago #1
This story also has a picture of the lab.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ 0522hikershot22.html

Shooting of dog-walker called justified

Grant Kuenzli (shown with his Labrador retriever, Maggie) was killed May 11 on a forest trail north of Payson.

Payson-area trail death deemed self-defense

Peter Corbett The Arizona Republic May. 22, 2004 12:00 AM

It was a common Arizona hiking confrontation: big, unleashed dogs on a trail, turning a peaceful walk in the woods into a frightening ordeal of snarling teeth and vicious barking.

Usually it is settled with words, sometimes angry. This time it turned deadly.

Coconino County sheriff's detectives say the shooting of 43-year-old Grant Kuenzli was a justifiable homicide. But the victim's friends say he was a peaceful man who had volunteered to take a couple of dogs from an animal shelter out for exercise and didn't deserve to die.

The encounter occurred 11 days ago near Payson, when Kuenzli was hiking through the woods on the Pine Canyon Trail with his dog, a yellow Labrador retriever named Maggie, and two other dogs, a chow and a German shepherd mix.

The dogs, which were not on leashes, ran ahead and apparently startled Harold Fish, a 57-year-old retiree from Phoenix, according to sheriff's Detective Scott Feagan.

Fish, who was carrying a 10mm semiautomatic pistol in a holster, felt threatened, Feagan said, and fired a warning shot into the ground near the dogs and then three shots at Kuenzli, all of which hit him in the chest.

'Our investigation leads us to believe this is a situation of self-defense,' Feagan said. '(Fish) was under attack.'

Fish could not be reached for comment. There were no other witnesses.

Payson retiree John McCauley, 73, who befriended Kuenzli at Payson's dog park, described him as 'a very gentle person' who loved dogs and the outdoors.

McCauley and others in Payson who knew Kuenzli said it does not add up that he and his dogs would have been a threat to another hiker.

Feagan related Fish's account of the shooting:

Kuenzli's barking dogs charged at Fish, who yelled at Kuenzli to call them off. Fish fired a warning shot when the lead dog, the chow, was within 6 feet of him.

Fish looked up and saw Kuenzli running down the hill, fists clenched, and yelling at him. He warned him to stop. Kuenzli charged forward. Fish shot him three times.

Fish then hiked out and flagged down a passer-by to alert the Sheriff's Department. Kuenzli was dead when the paramedics arrive.

Fish had no wounds from the dogs.

Both Kuenzli and Fish were each about 5 feet 10 inches tall and weighed close to 200 pounds.

Feagan said the chow that charged Fish has a documented history of aggression.

That is disputed by Larry Stubbs, Payson Humane Society president.

Kuenzli, who volunteered at the Payson shelter, had taken the chow and shepherd out for a hike with Maggie, a therapy dog that he took to senior centers.

Stubbs, a retired Phoenix police officer, said the shelter would have euthanized either dog if it was vicious.

He said the Sheriff's Department had not contacted him.

McCauley said he believes that Kuenzli probably yelled at Fish not to kill his dogs.

'I don't think the guy who shot him was doing anything malicious,' McCauley said.

'I just think he overreacted.'

William Boa, a Mesa police volunteer for 14 years and a gun instructor, said a dog could be considered a lethal weapon.

'The question is: Are you in fear of your life and did you take a reasonable action?' said Boa, who teaches a concealed-weapons permit course.

Fish had a permit but was carrying his pistol openly, which is legal in Arizona.

A warning shot might indicate that Fish had time to flee, Boa said.

'Personally, I would have shot the dog first,' he said.

Although detectives say the shooting appears to have been justified, they do intend to present the case to a Coconino County grand jury.

It will be several weeks before any results are known.

McCauley said he is concerned that Kuenzli will be portrayed to a grand jury as homeless and a 'loose cannon.'

Kuenzli was living in the woods near Payson, but he showered and shaved every day and was well-adjusted, McCauley said.

He worked as a fire inspector for the Gilbert Fire Department from July 1998 to April 1999.

Kuenzli also had a Web site listing himself as a pet photographer and appeared on an Internet listing of Arizonans for Howard Dean.

'He had plenty of money, a bank account and a $1,000 check on him when he was killed,' McCauley said.

Stubbs, of the Payson Humane Society, said people in Payson are wondering how the shooting could have happened.

'He was such mild-mannered guy, they can't understand it,' Stubbs said.
prasadrvr
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Posted 5 Months, 1 Week ago #2
(americasroof) went like:

A tragedy. I was up there a few days ago but hadn't heard of this.
orphia nay
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Posted 5 Months, 1 Week ago #3
Damn!

The guy with the gun is a coward, justified or not.
banjo
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Posted 5 Months, 1 Week ago #4
No doubt. I am all about the right to bear arms, but honestly, the people who think they need to pack heat when they're out for a walk in the woods are the exact last people I want to see with a gun in their hands.
srkaeppler
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Posted 5 Months ago #5
Please explain to me what kind of moron would take three dogs that he doesn't 'know', one of which has a history of aggression on a walk without a leash? First of all, the animal shelter where I live requires dog walkers to use a leash at all times, because it is difficult to control a pound dog. Second of all, I believe (I may be wrong, but I don't think so), that the Pine Canyon Trail is probably part of the Coconino National Forest and ALL national forests require that your pets be under your control at all times. Therefore, not only was Mr. Kuenzli suffering from terminal stupidity, but he was breaking a FEDERAL LAW.

Betcha the good samaritan 'dog walkers' from the local pound use leases now, eh?
Pidarazzz
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Posted 5 Months ago #6
'Auntie Em' <> Betcha the good samaritan 'dog walkers' from the local pound use leases now,

What kind of an irresponsible creep would let a Labrador Retreiver be in a position to smell a stranger's crotch? I hope they strung him up to rot after they shot him.
salibello
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Posted 5 Months ago #7
Stupidity and dog off leash: And that justifies shooting someone in the chest three times at close range? The punishment seems a little severe to me.

I'm betting the grand jury will indict the shooter with manslaughter.

LewBob
swift75
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Posted 5 Months ago #8
This has to be a troll. Perhaps a well-orchestrated one, but a troll nonetheless.

If ANY of you REALLY think this was justified, please have your heads examined.

Self-defense USUSALLY involves the shooting of the perp, which in this case was/were the dog(s).

Please note that the shooter had no injuries from the dogs.

Verdict - Fish goes to jail.
misha23
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Posted 5 Months ago #9
From what I have read about it so far, I hope you're right!
howarbr8
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Posted 5 Months ago #10
You're not considering that the shooter felt threatened by the mannerisms of the deceased after having deterred the actions of the dogs.

Citizens are not held to the same 'ladder of aggression' as the law enforcement community, so being charged by what appears to be an angered if not crazed individual constitutes probable cause if a reasonable and prudent person would feel threatened in a similar situation.

Just playing the devils advocate here so please don't shoot the messenger!
keepcruizin
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Posted 5 Months ago #11
Please don't post such things out of context. At first, I thought you meant the climber whe was nicknamed 'Fish!' I hadn't followed the first half of the thread.
brianmayeux
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Posted 1 Month, 2 Weeks ago #12
I am going to assume that the story Fish gives is true...

That multiple dogs were coming at me with aggression and then some lunatic was charging after me after firing a warning shot...

All I know is that I would be very happy that I had decided to pack a firearm along on that trip... If we assume the story is true, Fish was more than justified...

I realize only Fish and the whack-job really know what happened out there... But, if you ask my opinion, I believe Fish...
Hammy
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Posted 1 Month ago #13
It is clear that nobody who has responded to this thread has bothered to do even cursory research on this case. Indignantly huffing and puffing on the internet is easy and fun!
http://www.google.com/search?q=arizona+harold+fish+shooting
DKtucson
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Posted 2 Weeks ago #14
Look at it this way: I carry when I'm hiking--javelinas, bears, drug smugglers--all kinds of nasty critters. let's dissect this scenarioogs NOT on leashes and no human in sight at the moment. Dogs come at me snarling.. Greaaaaat--feral dogs that have been abandoned by their owners and are now in a pack/group showing agression.
I fire warning shots. The absent owner now comes at me fists clenched screaming because I might hurt woofie that was trying to eat me. The owner showing aggression was acting as the alpha male at that point. His dogs could pick up his lead and rejoin the attack that the warning shots abated.
If attacked or threatened by a group of animals--gang members--whatever----you take out the alpha male and the rest stop in their tracks.
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